Overview
In this episode, I’m speaking with Sufi mystic, Shaykh Burhanuddin Herman. Shaykh Burhanuddin went through classic Sufi training for over 35 years, under the direct guidance of his master Shaykh Nazim al Haqqani, one of the most respected Sufi masters of our times. In this interview, Shaykh Burhanuddin talks about the main goals, principles, and practices of the Sufi path, his relationship with his master, what Sufi meditation retreats look like, and the importance of consistent spiritual practice. He also talks about some of the main challenges present in the spiritual path and gives advice on how to overcome them.
Topics Covered
00:00: Episode Introduction
1:01 – Shaykh Burhanuddin’s journey prior to Sufism, and first encounter with his master
11:41 – Practices and methods Shaykh Burhanuddin started with
12:28 – Retiring from music as part of his spiritual journey
18:15 – Overview of Sufism and stages of the path
36:18 – Main principles in Sufism
37:00 – Purity
44:09 – How practice is viewed is Sufism
47:46 – Engaging with the world vs. seclusion
51:32 – Why Shaykh Burhanuddin’s teachings include elements from other traditions and methods
54:02 – Single Player, Multi-player, and no-player mode
56:51 – Some of the most common challenges Shaykh Burhanuddin sees in his students
1:01:36 – How Shaykh Burhanuddin is teaching nowadays
Guest Bio
Shaykh Burhanuddin is a contemporary mystic of ancient tradition, called onto the Sufi path at a young age. In his teaching, Shaykh Burhanuddin combines methods from his Sufi Tradition with contemporary knowledge of psychology.
He started the practice at 10 with Yoga, and between the ages of 14-18 practiced meditation under the guidance of the 16th Karmapa Rangjung Rigpe Dorje, within the Karma Kagyu lineage of Tibetan Buddhism. At 18, Shaykh Burhanuddin met with the grandmaster of the Naqshbandi Sufi Order, one of the most ancient and authoritative of the many existing Sufi Orders, Mawlana Shaykh Nazim al Haqqani ar Rabbani, and went through the classic dervish training under the direct guidance of the Master.
He received a direct transmission of the Naqshbandi Sufi Order. Shaykh Burhanuddin is the author of three books, a musician and the founder of the Dervish Orchestra.
Links
To learn and practice with Shaykh Burhanuddin check his courses, and live events on Innercraft and his website:
To support your practice we have also created the following resources:
- Video Course Library: https://www.inner-craft.com/video-courses/
- Live Events (Workshops, Q&As, Peer Meetups, etc.): https://www.inner-craft.com/live-training/
- Guided Meditation Library: https://www.inner-craft.com/guided-meditation/
- Podcast: https://www.inner-craft.com/podcast/
- Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1632152067129586
Music by DJ Taz Rashid:
Transcripts
Speaker 1 00:00:02 Welcome to the inner craft podcast. This podcast is about meditation and awakening from the lenses of diverse wisdom traditions. Here, we host teachers and practitioners who have devoted their lives to rigorous and extensive training. Our goal is to provide you with nuggets of wisdom that may help deepen your practice and bring more of it into daily life. My name is Andre VSO. I am co-founder of aircraft, an online platform for in depth and personal life meditation training. And I’ll be your host in this episode.
Speaker 1 00:00:38 In this episode, I’m speaking with Sufi, my Shehan Herman Shehan went through classic Sui training for over 35 years under direct guidance of his master. She Nancy Malani one of the most respected Sufi masters of our times in this interview, Sheik BHA bin talks about the main goals, Princip and practices of a SOI path, his relationship with his master, how SOI meditation priest look like and the importance of consistent spiritual practice. He also talks about some of the main challenges present in the spiritual path and gives advice on how to overcome them now without further ado, she P Herman. Hi, she welcome to the inner craft podcast. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 00:01:30 Thank you so much for
Speaker 1 00:01:32 Thank you. She, I’ve already shared a little bit of your background with the audience and something that really struck me was how in your early years you practice and explore different traditions and different paths before you go to SU. So I’m curious, what caught your attention about SU what made it special? So you decided to make it your, your spiritual path?
Speaker 2 00:01:58 Well, it happened that I was hitchhiking in a very rainy day and it was actually really, um, flooding. Yeah, it was not a little rain, it was really flooding. And finally they came a little bit Beatle. I couldn’t see because of the rain who was inside the door just opened. And there was a strong voice telling me to come in, went in and I was so happy that I was inside the car, you know, and not in the rain anymore, even it was, um, uh, summer. So it wasn’t really freezing cold, but it was very unpleasant at that moment. And, um, I find myself with a man sitting with a big black ton in the car and doesn’t say a word first. Yeah. And, um, so we, we have like a 10 minutes of, of silence or maybe longer. And then he was asking me if I love my mother.
Speaker 2 00:03:05 Yeah. And in that moment, actually, because I was very young, I was 18 years old. Um, there was some difficulties I had with my mother, not really big difficulties, you know, but, um, uh, this typical thing that you may not feel understood really completely, uh, uh, or different views about some things, no, not, not heavy stuff. And, um, so I’m telling him this things. No. And he says, I only hear from you, me, me, me. Yeah. Why don’t you say, oh, yeah.. And I was like, I was like, what you, what that guy, you know, what is he, um, asking, you know? Yeah. And I said, why should I say under, you know, I’m not even sure, uh, God exists. You know, I said to him that time he kept quiet again, you know? And then, um, we made a hold, you know, where they had the coffee shop.
Speaker 2 00:04:20 Yes. And in that time in Germany, uh, there was no smoking. Um, um, how do you say prohibition in the, in the restaurants like nowadays everywhere, there is a smoking strict, very strict smoking prohibition. So the, the cause of the ring, everyone was inside and all the smokers too. And it was like, like more likely to gender than, um, really a normal kind place now. And, um, so we are sitting there and he looks at me, he had this very strong presence. And, um, I say to him, you know, I can’t stand to, you know, I think I really have to go out and he stay, breathe, breathe deep in because it is the best air you have. And I say, how is it the best air? You know? And he said, well, it is the air you have. So it’s the best one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:05:22 Take a breath, take a breath. And, um, and then he, he was having a, a picture from a photo, a little photograph, like this size from his shape, from his master. And he was, uh, pushing it over to me and said, have a look. Yeah.. So I had a look and, um, he was a very strong master. You can say very strong shape and something in me got really touched by it, you know? And then, um, he was talking a bit about his relationship with the she and so on. And, um, and that was the first time that I came in contact and I found him very fascinating because he did not talk to me. Like he would not talk, uh, answering my questions, but he would say different things, but somehow there was a strong, intimate connection, you know, and in the next week I went to his place and I knocked the door.
Speaker 2 00:06:35 He was living in an old house, in the middle of town. Yeah. On below the roof and no elevators. So it took me really a while to come up there. And, um, I knocked the door and he came and, and didn’t open the door, but was speaking with his loud voice behind the door and asking me who is there. And I said, it’s me, uh, the one that you, that you took from the highway, you know, and he said, what do you want? And I said, well, I, I have some questions. Yeah. And he said, ah, you want to steal my time? And I said, no, I don’t want to steal your time. I just have some questions. And he said, okay, if you don’t steal my time, you have to be my guest. That means you need to eat something. So I will make three breads for you.
Speaker 2 00:07:30 And if you eat all of them, then you can put some questions to me, if that is fine for you, you can up. And I said, well, okay, okay. Then I eat threes. Now, what I didn’t know is that the breads he offered me literally were like, this size, honestly, bread, you know, the really biggest bread you can imagine, you know? And so he was putting the butter on the bread, you know, he was putting the, on the bread and to eat one bread already was quite an effort you can say to eat three was almost mission impossible. So I was like chewing the bread, you know, and chewing the food. And he was, um, living in a room that had one mattress, which was very thin.
Speaker 2 00:08:26 And, um, it was a mattress that was, uh, coming from the desert. Yeah. From the Turx. So there is a kind of leather thing over it. Yeah. Very hard. And he used a kind of, of brick almost as a cushion. Yeah. It looked like a brick models. And, um, that was the whole furniture. Yeah. There was a book next to this bed, what could call his bed? And there was, uh, a table with two chairs where we sat and, um, that was the, the room, you know, so very existential let’s say, you know, and, um, he was not a talker. Yeah. So he often was just quiet for many minutes and that challenged me a lot. Yeah. And, um, so we, we had two meetings and he was saying to me in one of the meetings, um, I’m not your master. Yeah. But there is one for you and he lives in Turkey. And so I made my way to Turkey, but I couldn’t find really anybody because he didn’t tell exactly where he would live. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:09:54 Now it’s um, yeah. Silent. Yeah. On your side. Good. So, um, uh, finally it happened that I met, um, another man that, um, was always connected to his, she yeah. And, um, both of them passed away now and this man, he was, um, in contact with my she, with, and, um, he asked me one time if I could host him in fry book. And I said, yes, of course. Welcome. Yeah. And when I met mache, uh, we met basically as a first contact on the street. And, um, that, what I said also in the other interviews was a life changing meeting because I fainted in front of him when I came closer to him. And, um, from that moment on, you can say that he took my life. It was not my choice. You know, it was not that I wanted to enter in Islam or that I wanted to enter in this tradition. You know, it was just so overwhelming, you know, that I had no other thought I had no other choice. It was choiceless. I can say Molina took me like Jesus would have taken his disciples. You know, he would walk along the beach and he would meet this fisherman and he would say to them come right. This is how it is reported to us. And it is told that they dropped the Fisher nets no. And followed him and in a very similar way that happened to me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:12:01 Uh, that’s, that’s very interesting. That’s a great, great story and yeah, very profound way to meet, to meet the teacher. Very unique. Um, at that time, were you practicing any spirituality? Uh, I don’t know. I, I, I think you had some experience in yoga and Buddhism.
Speaker 2 00:12:23 I was always practicing something since I was, uh, very young. Yeah. And, um, at that time I was still in Buddhism. Yeah. And, um, and yeah, and I was, um, doing these meditations, which they practiced there in the now and, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:12:49 Awesome. Thanks. Thanks for sharing that. And yes. Going a little bit deeper in what SU is. So you, you made your shake, uh, what was the sort of practice or training that you started, started going with him after meeting him?
Speaker 2 00:13:10 Well, the first thing he told me is to stop everything which had to do with music. Cause I was actually intending to become a musician. And he said, this is it for you. Now, there is no music. Uh, you don’t play the instrument, you don’t touch it anymore. You don’t listen anything. Uh, you don’t watch any movies. You don’t hear radio, you don’t hear any records. And if there is any kind of sound on the street coming from a shop or whatever, you don’t enter in such a shop or you leave. Yeah. When something starts. And this was, uh, very tough practicing for me because I was playing at that time between four and five hours daily, uh, practicing the instrument, you know? So, um, this was a very strong cut and, um, mm-hmm um, and then there are, um, prayers yeah. That you are supposed to practice. Yeah. Beside five ritual prayers that are common for every Muslim. And then, um, there Arely, there we work a lot with mantra, which we call Zika. Yeah. So you receive a program of different mantra and it’s, we do not follow just one usually, but there is a kind of, um, mix of mantra or physical and yeah. This is what I practiced. Right.
Speaker 1 00:14:57 Mm-hmm. And why, why do you think, uh, your shape told you to stop engaging in music and engage? Yeah. Engaging in music. Uh, does it have something to do with sens verification and trying to not overload your senses and try to get pleasure from that? So that there’s room for something else? I think that’s a concept common in many traditions, but is it related to that as well?
Speaker 2 00:15:25 I think he could see that I was completely attached yeah. And identified with music and that it was somehow the way that I could, um, express myself emotionally, you know? And without that, I felt very crippled, you know, in the beginning. Yeah. I felt something is missing. I cannot really express myself in the same way, you know, so it was really, um, experiencing myself in a new way, you know, without any Getches, which we would say, for example, today, this would be the computer, which wasn’t that time, you know, or our, uh, phones or mobiles. Um, so, uh, yeah, it was a purification, you know, process of purification
Speaker 1 00:16:18 At, at what point did you engage with music again? Because I know that you are currently doing music.
Speaker 2 00:16:23 Right? Well, after five years he called me and he asked me if I wasn’t a musician, um, pretending that he forgotten. And so I was loving at him and said, yeah, I have been a musician, but that’s gone know. And he said, no, no, it’s not gone. You start again. But this time he said, you don’t follow your ego. Yeah. You make it out of your heart.
Speaker 1 00:16:55 Well, well, and then when you engage again, how was experience for you basically before it was, it seems that it was an ego based, you know, attachment to music. How was it afterwards?
Speaker 2 00:17:12 Um, it wasn’t easy to start again, actually. Um, first of all, uh, there was, uh, technologically things had changed a bit, you know, and, um, I didn’t really know what to do because I used to have a partner yeah. Who, um, had passed away because he went into drugs and didn’t work out well for him. And so, um, I was on my own and, and I was having 10% left of the capacity on the instrument that I used to have. So I didn’t really know first what to do, but then I came in contact with, uh, another brother and, um, we found a big love for each other in, in music and with his help and, uh, um, his knowledge also about technology that he had much more than me, we could make, um, a record. Yeah. And it was, um, and is still, I think one of the best things I actually did until now. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:18:29 Thanks for sharing that. It’s, it’s very interesting to hear that music, which is usually seen and consider as something very pure, can be an object of attachment and can be detrimental to the spiritual path. But I, I totally understand it. Would you mind Jake talking a little bit more about sufficient sort of, you know, like an overview for all of us who haven’t been exposed to it before? Talk about maybe the main goals, if there are goals or usually in this, uh, contemplative traditions, some type of awakening, maybe with our awards can be defined as the goal or at least that direction of the path. So could you talk a little bit about that in the,
Speaker 2 00:19:16 Well, I would say super is a super science yeah. And whatever it touches. Yeah. Its like bringing to the height of expression of what it can be. So, um, when, um, for example, architecture came in contact with the knowledge of one of the was for example yeah. Or mosque and other really, really prominent, um, places like Alhambra Andana and that is built on spiritual principles that were brought through SU into, um, that culture, you know, the Islamic culture. Well, we have to see that SU is as old as mankind. Yeah. But it always adapted to the latest revelations to the latest prophet. Let’s say that came. Right. So the last one in our understanding was the prophet Muhammad piece upon him. And he was the Supreme expression of love. Yeah. He represents love in our tradition. Right. And the way he lifted, the way he showed it, uh, inspired everything.
Speaker 2 00:20:58 So it inspired music, it inspired architecture, it inspired poetry, it inspired, um, all arts you can say and um, dancing, whatever you look at it. Yeah. He touched it and he brought it to a new flourishing, a new level. Yeah. That, um, it’s uh, really fascinating up to date. Yeah. So medicine, any kind of science, which was touched by it was flowing. Right. And um, it is still doing it. Yeah. Unfortunately many Muslims have adopted the Western science to be the Supreme one. Right. And forgot about their own heritage and that lead them to a kind of stop kind of be stuck, but there is a new generation and they are more, uh, open to it and, and more aware of their, their, um, legacy. Right. And um, yeah, there is some very exciting things happening and um, it is basically a system to develop your soul and from the lower side, from the shadow self to the light body, to the, um, Supreme intelligence, to the spirit, to the spirit self, which is represented, um, by the sun.
Speaker 2 00:22:49 Yeah. And um, in sufficient we, we believe, or we see that the spirit is one yeah. In every one of us, we carry the same spirit. Your spirit is my spirit. My spirit is your spirit, but in the soul we have an individuality. Yeah. Kinda divine individuality. Yeah. And it is somehow the bridge to our physically life here on earth, you know? So, um, in the lower self, in Arabic, the world’s soul and self is the same world. Yeah. It’s got enoughs so navs is also translatable as soul and its translatable itself and translatable as equal. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:23:45 So, um, in the lower self, yeah. We are unaware of our destination of our purpose of our meaning in this world on an in base and also on a collective. Yeah. We, uh, as unaware that we, for example, um, destroy the planet with great passion. Yeah. We can say that. And not really, even not now being aware of climate changes, but not really being aware of the position earth has really, you know, what earth is for us. Yeah. That it’s a living being and that it’s one of the greatest teachers and that we live in its sphere. Right. We are all, um, I, if you wanna say, so, um, we are living in her sphere. Right. And, um, that is a very meaningful thing and has to be understood. Yeah. So we learn through earth. We have to cooperate with earth. We have to, um, be able to live in a peaceful way with her and if not, um, she, she would frequent us.
Speaker 2 00:25:16 And when I was, uh, staying in the forest where I was growing up, um, and I stayed most of my time, my private time out school, there, there was a moment that I could hear the forest crying, you know, it became sad. Yeah. And it was a very strong experience for me to hear it, to, to feel that sadness. And um, then I understood the sadness comes to this acid rain that was starting in the eighties to rain down, you know? And, um, uh, it was making the forest set. Yeah. And now the earth is not the earth is, but we do not hear it. We cannot hear it. And we, this described in the book of love in the holy that their hearts are like stones and they’re deaf and, and this is a bit condition. We are it right. We have intelligence, but we cannot use it up to now really for our own benefit. Yeah. Everything we invented has always terrible side effects on us. Yeah. And on our environment. Right. And this has to change if we do not learn to develop a technology, which is suitable for us and suitable for, um, then earth, then we will face what we have to face. I mean, we are in the middle of it and we are going to face, um, hard situations. Yeah. There’s not a question that, that happens. It is happening already and it will happen stronger and stronger if we don’t wake up.
Speaker 1 00:27:27 Mm-hmm so that’s part of a consequence of actions derived from the first NA right. Where we are not very aware of our actions and yeah. Uh,
Speaker 2 00:27:41 That is technical term and is described as the wild careless, ignorant ego state. Yeah. Where everyone is selfish. Yeah. And cannot think on any other thing than himself or herself and is very, um, dominated by sexuals, by food, by drinking, by the need
Speaker 1 00:28:17 Comes after that
Speaker 2 00:28:20 Comes. Um, NA Obama, that is the distinguishing self. That is the self, which feels that there is a higher purpose for it, that there is something that, um, you have to, to understand in your life, you have to fulfill, you have to, you feel a kind of call, you know, to look beyond the material world. And, um, so you all become interested in, in maybe, um, sacred books or spiritual literature, or you have met somebody that touched you and inspired you and you wanna explore yourself. That is a moment where you want to turn inward, um, maybe not more inward than outward, but you want to turn inward, right.
Speaker 1 00:29:11 Mm-hmm. And
Speaker 2 00:29:13 According the call you receive for yourself, that can be very strong. Life changing is strong. Um, that can be the moment, for example, where you meet your teacher, your master. Yes. And, uh, depends on what category of master you meet, can change your life radically, like in my case, um, or touches you softer and you can still integrate it in your daily life and have the normal life you have. Um, it depends very much, uh, where you are individually, what is needed for you and also what you are ready to do to go for know mm-hmm, mm-hmm so that’s a big area and, um, yes, the next one would be, um, Naman. It is the, the, the place where you go into the state of longing. Yeah. And it is also the place of determination where a person like this you could say is in an advanced state.
Speaker 2 00:30:32 Yeah. Um, that means for a person like this, it is clear that the spirit practicing has the first place in their life. Yeah. It is what we could call a devoted person, a devoted or a disciple. Yeah. Rather than just a student and, um, devotes his life and every aspect of his life or her life in this direction. Yeah. In his spiritual direction. Um, the authority that is given to the master is absolute. Yeah. So what the master says, you will be happily following it, according your capacity. No. Yeah. Um, but your life is completely absorbed on, on this, on this, uh, tradition you follow or on the path you follow.
Speaker 1 00:31:34 Yeah. That’s, that’s interesting. So that’s sort of the progression path, let’s say of a practitioner in thepath. Right,
Speaker 2 00:31:42 Right, right. And then there will be a jump. Yeah. Uh, that is, um, from, if you look for example, symbol of the, but many people know this symbol. Yeah. So what we talked just this moment is on the right side of it. Yeah. That would be 1, 2, 4, 5, 4, 1, 2, 2, uh, four. Yeah. And then between four and five, there is a gap. Yeah. And we call this. Yeah. So in this gap, there is no, um, instruction, really what you do. Yeah. There is something has to happen to you. Yeah. That you can make this jump out of your ecostructure. Um, out of the gravity of the ecostructure, let’s say like this. Yeah. It’s not that you are completely free from ego then, but you go out of the gravity. Right. And this is, um, usually done in our tradition through sec exclusions that can have an unknown length, but have a minimum length of 40 days. Uh, and then according the, she, the master can be prolonged. And so, and, and that time you in a isolation and, um, you will practice, um, 20 hours a day. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:33:26 Uh, very strong practicings, you know, that includes all kinds of, of exercises, also physical exercises. Uh, and through this very, very intense practicing, you reach to deepest, deepest, um, levels of your ego structure. Right. First all seeing what is holding you, fierce sadness is anger, remorse, rebellion. Um, you understand the way you mind functions. Yeah. And so on and so on. And if you are ready to go beyond, you will find yourself in the state of, and this is the state, um, where you need absolutely. For certain, uh, and a real that knows. Yeah. Because this is the part of evolution. The first one, we call it a part of evolution. Yeah. Which means you basically return yeah. To what you know already. Yeah. To what you have been always knowing to you to your real self let’s say, but that self is not study.
Speaker 2 00:35:05 It is not like an entity, which is, um, imperfection. It is growing and growing and growing like the universe expands. Right. Why does it expand? Because there is an infinite consciousness behind it. Yeah. That expands, that also keeps on expanding. So we are the sons and daughters of this consciousness. Right. And therefore also our higher self keeps on expanding and learning, you know? And, um, that happens on the left part and not to go into difficulties. Like for example, the, the fact that you may receive powers. Yeah. Spirit powers that will cross your way and, um, have to be learned, have to be mastered. Uh, otherwise they will destroy you and they will harm you and others. So we can say in the right side, you have a possibility to reach by your own yeah. To a certain point, but to make the jump, to make the jump and to continue from then on, you need somebody that is at home in the spiritual world and knows its laws knows, knows its ways and can guide you.
Speaker 1 00:36:41 Mm-hmm yeah. Thank you. Shake that’s. That makes sense. Um, yeah. So what are the main principles in, if there are some, uh, if you could name a few,
Speaker 2 00:36:58 Uh, is a simple, you could say, um, the first one I would say purity.
Speaker 3 00:37:07 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:37:09 Um, and purity goes together and compassion, love and, um, knowledge.
Speaker 3 00:37:28 Yeah. Mm-hmm okay.
Speaker 1 00:37:33 Could you expand a little bit more on, on purity? I think it could be a controversial term. Uh, so what would love to
Speaker 2 00:37:41 When you start to observe yourself? Yeah. Which is in every tradition, the, the one tool you have to use, there is not a tradition where you can bypass self observation. Right. So mm-hmm, self observation means that you go into a certain distance with your lower self. Yeah. And you find the observer in you, you notice that there is an observer, right. Who can observe your thoughts, who can observe your emotions, who can observe your body. Yeah. And you start to observe yourself. Right. And then you will find patterns that are harmful for you. Yeah. That they actually sabotage your life, sabotage your happiness, sabotage your, um, um, development. Yeah. To develop your life yeah. To have a successful relationship, to have a successful career and so on and so on. Yeah. And, um, then you, um, learn to see that and replace it with a better pattern.
Speaker 2 00:39:01 Yeah. With a pure pattern. In that sense, for example, purity means more or less that you sacrifice harmful behaviors. Yeah. Um, Hm. Um, toxic behaviors. Yeah. Mm-hmm um, so when you, for example, uh, just look at the physical, we try to purify our physical life. Yeah. We do not drink things that are harmful. We do not eat things that are harmful. We do not, um, exhaust our body to the, to the extreme yeah. Uh, we take care. Yeah. We take care. And um, so we try to eat as pure as possible. Yeah. Um, mm-hmm that is represented in what you call biological or ecological food. Yeah. Food that is not poisoned. Yeah. That is pure. Yeah. Mm-hmm we try to drink pure water as much as possible. Um, and we try to breathe, uh, in the best way possible. Yeah. And the best quality of air that is available for us.
Speaker 2 00:40:13 Yeah. So, um, mm-hmm, on the physical level, very easy to understand emotional level, you purify yourself from pride, from self importance, from, and from jealousy, from, uh, um, traumas. Yeah. Very important. Yeah. From the system mm-hmm yeah. That we all are bringing with us. Yeah. When we come in this world mm-hmm and, um, on this, on the mind level, you understand that there is a troubled mind. Yeah. Which is an analytical mind, which is, uh, helpful to live and become practical in certain things. But it’s not helpful to answer your life questions for example, or to guide you in your, um, relationships, for example. Yeah. So you understand that nature of that mind and you, uh, try to purify your mind. And that means you stop talking, thinking behind the back of people. Yeah. You practice strictly the truth. And if you find that you have some unconscious lying going on, you, you try to stop it when you realize it.
Speaker 2 00:41:47 Right. Um, you try to be in a high. Yeah. So you don’t harm anyone by speech. Yeah. Um, then in the purification, after purification comes the thankfulness yeah. On the mind level. And so you become thankful you practice thankfulness, which is the golden key to turn your life around. Yeah. Because if you’re not thankful with the, what has been given to you in your troubled conditions, you do not have to expect that more will be given to you because that will only expand your travel. Okay. And that’s not in the purpose of this existence of this universe. We do not wanna foster, uh, or cultivate more travel. Right. So, uh, when you learn to handle your life in the amount you have been given in, in the amount, which is now with real thankfulness, with real satisfaction, then expect that life starts to flow to you in a different amount, on all kinds of levels, emotionally materially, uh, also health level.
Speaker 2 00:43:19 Yeah. So mm-hmm then at the next level, you will come into celebration. Yeah. That you live almost on the ecstasy. You can say you are coming in very ecstatic states. Yeah. And, uh, you have to learn to, to handle that. Otherwise people may think that you really on this planet so there can be times where you need to adapt where you need to learn to adapt, because it’s not all, you know, like in departments now you are here and then you are here and then you are here. This it’s very fluctuating. And you can, when you come into new areas of perception yeah. That can be very, very, very, um, driving out of your usual world and of your usual way to control yourself and need time where you, you know, and we learn to, to handle this states, you know, mm-hmm yes.
Speaker 1 00:44:39 You’ve mentioned, uh, several times now the, uh, different practices like prayers for, um, mantras or even the practice of thank thankfulness throughout the day. Could you ex uh, talk a little bit more about the importance of practicing in SU and maybe also talk a little bit more about these practices.
Speaker 2 00:45:03 Uh, that’s another name for Sufi, uh, which we usually don’t other, but we call other, yeah. Delish is a worth, it means a person who sits on the, so he has one in heaven and one on, he sits in the middle also has this delish also has this, this aspect of poverty or a person who’s detached from worldly matters, right? Doesn’t mean that you have to be poor, but you are detached. You are delish. You are, the world doesn’t mean much to you. You are not looking for attachment. So, um, Aish practice is really around the clock. There is not, um, a moment where he does not practice. There is this prayer. There is this zer, but the Zika on the higher levels of practicing goes around the clock. It’s permanent. Yeah. So you are all the time in recitation of something. Um, then there is, and the connection with breath to the mantra, then there is the, um, practicing on the energetic body on sounds.
Speaker 2 00:46:34 Um, so all these things, they come more and more and more in your life. Yeah. And, um, at the same time, we encourage people to have a professional life and to have family life as well. So this is of course not easy. So you need really to develop a very good time management. That is another thing. Yeah. And for this reason we divide our day in five parts. Yeah. Because if you want to manage something, you have to divide it. You know, that is, uh, what every basic coaching in business tells you, if something is too big to embrace it divided right. In some parts, eatable parts, you know? So, um, this is what we do in synchronicity with the sun, with the solar system, you can say yeah. With the moon, but with the moon. And the first of all, because these are the twos that are visible fast, the strongest, and, um, that are the most important one, our emotional life for our life on earth for our, uh, way we, we handle our life. Yeah. When we have these two planets close and when we know what they are, what they do with us, um, you have already half of the path. No. OK. Yes.
Speaker 1 00:48:15 Something that struck my attention of what you said was that in the tradition, you encourage people, practitioners to enter the family life. It’s, it’s interesting how different this is from other ways, uh, in which maybe they encourage being, uh, sec, uh, being maybe in sec, ion and avoiding, engaging with, uh, let’s say with a modern world in a way to deepen the practice. So was there reasoning to don’t do that and engage in family life?
Speaker 2 00:48:51 Well, the reason is you have to become useful. You know, if every one of us includes, yeah. There is no community, there is not anything we contribute, you know, to the society in a visible sense, at least. So, um, mm-hmm,, the model has to be in a way that touches most of people’s life. Yeah. Not a few ones that they just look for themselves in a way. But, um, through your lifestyle, you contribute to your community. Yeah. And Sobi try to live a lifestyle, which is in a, in a Supreme beauty. Yeah. With earth, with nature, with everything, with the cosmos, with, um, every aspect of life, you know, so most of us, uh, wish for a partner. Yeah. And if we do that in the right way, the partner is actually the rocket. Yeah. You benefit enormously. I mean, look at yourself, you are married and, um, you know exactly that your wife is a very, very strong mirror for you.
Speaker 2 00:50:12 Yeah. So, uh, what she says to you will hit you. Right. And if she says to you, um, my dear under this, you are a little bit too much busy with your business and you are neglecting the family. Yeah. Or you are neglecting me, um, then you better listen. Yeah. Because she’s your winner, you know, and Venus is, um, responsible for your beauty and for your success in your life. Yeah. So happy wife, happy home. Mm-hmm yeah. Happy home. Happy, man. Yeah. Yeah. Happy man. Happy business. Mm-hmm yeah. and um, yeah, so she can be your accelerator. Yeah. And, um, holds you also on the point to really devote, you know, cause to carry your family is not easy. Mm-hmm yeah. It’s much more difficult. Yeah. Alone. If you have the tendency to be alone, you know, then this is very comfortable, you know?
Speaker 2 00:51:18 Yeah. You have no woman that bothers you. You have nobody that, uh, you are with yourself and this is not difficult on a certain point to be with yourself, but it is a challenge mm-hmm to be with others. Yeah. And this is what we see. We have to learn on earth to become a community of peaceful people. Yeah. Not that we stay on and, and keep on killing each other, uh, through thousands of years and the next thousands of years. Um, that is not really what we are looking for. Right. Mm-hmm to happen in your,
Speaker 1 00:52:00 Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks, Jake. Uh, I think something you, uh, you said about practicing not only for oneself, but to be useful for others reminded me also, uh, the way that you’re teaching nowadays, uh, it seems that you are not only drawing from Sufi teachings, but also from other methods, I frequently hear you talking about, uh, the fourth way and good, or just teachings of psychology and other modern disciplines. So what’s your, your reasoning to draw from all of these traditions, uh, instead of just using SU as the main as the only one, sorry,
Speaker 2 00:52:46 If you say just so sufficient is by default, um, has its intention to, to look everywhere and to see what’s beneficial and whenever something is beneficial, you know, we grab it and we make it ours. Okay. So why we not do that? You know, I mean, if someone has, um, beautiful inspiration or beautiful music or beautiful, uh, furniture or whatever, I’m not gonna say to that person, oh, you have the wrong religion or you have the, or you no religion, or you have no path, whatever. Uh, that’s useless for us. No. What is benefiting us and others, according to principles, we look into it. Yeah. Mm-hmm we take it, we take it. We are happy to take it. Yeah. We were not, uh, mm-hmm proud to, to say we know all yeah. Mm-hmm we know all better. Yeah, no, no, yeah, no. We consider ourselves to be the last. Yeah. So anyone who has to teach something, please come and teach us. Yeah. And, um, that is how sufficient developed. Yeah. So we came in contact with our people with yogis, with six, with any kinda tradition. Yeah. And this is what makes sufficient, so rich and so
Speaker 1 00:54:24 Right. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s a great approach. I, well, in my view, at least, um, I, I also heard you about concepts, uh, such as single player mode, multiplayer mode or no player mode. Could you talk a little bit about this?
Speaker 2 00:54:47 Um, yeah. This are describing the three states. Usually people live their life where we can say, uh, the majority, majority lives in the mode. That is the way of life that you make circumstances and others responsible for the way you feel and think, no, uh, starting with your parents, starting with, uh, all kinds of, of, of, um, accusations. Yeah. That we live permanently in a world of accusations, you know, blaming the other. Yeah. Looking to the other and saying the other is the reason of my unhappiness. Yeah. My wrong birth in the wrong family is the reason of all my trouble. Yeah. Um, and so on. And so on the wrong president makes me unhappy. Yeah. The, the wrong country, the wrong language, the, whatever, the wrong size of my body. Yeah. Uh, wrong color of my eye is wrong. Shape of my nose and on and so on.
Speaker 2 00:55:56 Yeah. There is no end to that. Mm-hmm while in the single play mode, you understand you are the creator of your own life yeah. Of your own emotions of your own thoughts. Yeah. And, um, when you understand that you can take this responsibility for it. Yeah. And the more responsibility you take, the more you can start to act instead of reacting. Yeah. And, um, the player mode describes a life where you are, um, neither acting nor reacting, but you are listening. You’re listening to the higher orders, if you are in contact with, and you for them and you become certain mm-hmm . Yeah. That is just in service. Mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:56:57 yeah. I find that a very useful framework. Uh, think it’s very easy for anybody to understand you and people with no experience, you know, who are just little bit interested in these things. Um, yeah. uh, what about, uh, some cha, well, let me rephrase, rephrase my question. What are some challenges that you often see in your students of some of the most frequent, you know, problems or issues they face while, uh, practicing?
Speaker 2 00:57:35 Um, the main hindrance is usually, um, I think people face is in their wound and that they live their lives through their wounds, that they dunno what they are and how to handle them. So, um, uh, trauma, as you can say yeah. That they received, not because their parents were especially bad, but, um, to be traumatized, especially when we are very smart children is almost unavoidable. Yeah. And it happens to a certain degree to everybody. So, um, we usually start there yeah. To, to look, to encourage the student to there and observer that is very important and, um, learn to learn, to know how mind functions, how, uh, the brain functions also very important. Yeah. And, um, not to speak about things that, you know yeah. That is another thing. Very important. So, uh, every student loves to speak about chakras and about all these kinds of things, but, uh, you know, um, that is at least in my perception in the, this knowledge is enhanced of not many people.
Speaker 2 00:59:22 Yeah. Uh, and most people just talk what everyone talks. Yeah. Um, the famous third eye, for example. Yeah. That needs to be opened. Yeah. Uh, by any kind of tricks and, and clicks and this and that. But, um, that I is never closed. It is the same thing. Like your heart, you know, when you say I have a closed heart or my heart is closed, your heart is never closed. Yeah. Nothing us is ever closed. Nothing. Absolutely. Nothing is closed. Yeah. It cannot be closed. We want to close people. Yeah. We want to tell them, ah, your heart is not open your eyes, not open your heart, your, um, cha and knows what is blocked and so on and so on. Yeah. And already by saying this, yeah. You implant it in people. Yeah. You implant it because you use their difficulties to develop a theory, which gives them power, you know?
Speaker 2 01:00:26 Yeah. So they can come up and say, I show, you know, how you open this and open that and open this and open that. And then they find a little bit here, more energy or a little bit more warmth here or more that, well, that is not, um, really the truth. Yeah. You see things open by themselves. Yeah. They open exactly. exactly the way you start to purify yourself and to become straight and as much eagerness and humble as possible. Yeah. And that moment, these things will happen by that by itself. Yeah. There is not, uh, as an extra manipulation needed every method, which is a true method. Yeah. And all traditions, they developed, uh, true methods. So if that method is attractive for yeah. Then have a trust that this method is complete. So the meditation, which is in the beginning, not very successful yeah. Becomes more and more. It’s getting more and more successful for you. Yeah. Till the point that it brings you in higher areas that you would not have expected yeah. Before. OK. Mm-hmm so, um, yeah.
Speaker 1 01:02:01 Yeah. That’s great advice. We’re almost coming to an end shake, but before we leave, uh, work and people learn more from you and, you know, get access to your teachings, uh, E either online or in person, what sort of formats of teachings are you doing nowadays?
Speaker 2 01:02:23 Well, um, I like very much teaching, uh, life. Yeah. So from, to people, person to not one to one that I don’t have the time for that, but, um, in groups. Yeah. So there is always groups, regular groups that you can find in on our website SoFi way EU. And we’ll also come with another website soon, which is, um, uh, do com uh, where we opened the higher aspect, let’s say. Yeah. Mm-hmm and, um, bring a more, a more, um, complete picture for the time we are now coming. We are facing. And, um, mm-hmm and then there is these global groups yeah. That, uh, I do from time to time every month, I think there is one or every six weeks. It depends. Uh, and, uh, everyone is welcome. That is free. Yeah. And, um, and then there is, uh, channel two channels on, on YouTube. Yeah. One is my own name is my own name, I think. Um, and, um, I hope so. And the, that is correct. And, um, and the other one is called Simax SIM. Uh mm-hmm yeah. So there, you can see me, um, if you like and hear some things, um, the best thing is to the mm-hmm . Yeah, this is, um, the fastest and, uh, most beneficial, I think.
Speaker 1 01:04:24 Sounds good. Uh, I will be sharing all the links you mentioned on the podcast, uh, website, uh, I guess one last question. Note of curiosity just came up, uh, right now to remain. Um, are you doing periods of seclusion? You mentioned before that, uh, those were sort of part of that path as well. Uh, periods of, I know, 40 days of intense practice, 20 hours per day, something like that. Are you still doing those type, those type of things?
Speaker 2 01:04:54 Yes, we are doing it not 40 days because 40 days, you know, um, that is something that can only do a few people. OK. And I cannot, we cannot open that to everyone because, uh, we don’t want to create a mental house. Right. Yeah. So, um, mm-hmm. Yeah, but we do up to 10 days, which is already very, very intense. Yeah. And mm-hmm, , uh, we wanted actually to intensify that before the pandemic situation came mm-hmm and now let’s see how it is possible. Yeah. Um, mm-hmm but this is something we definitely want to also, uh, continue to do it. Yes.
Speaker 1 01:05:43 Mm-hmm awesome. Sounds good. Well, thank you. She so much first and great. I enjoy the conversation very much. Thank you.
Speaker 2 01:05:51 Thank you very much. And we wish you all the best in success for inner craft and, uh, that people, uh, enjoy the working. It’s a very be work all the best for you, your family, and
Speaker 0 01:06:07 The
Speaker 2 01:06:07 Best. Thank you.
Speaker 1 01:06:10 Although it’s really thank you for listening to this episode, to find the links mentioned today, please visit our website@craft.com. Here. You will also find resources for in depth and personalized meditation training, such as video courses and live events conducted by highly qualified teachers. If you enjoy this episode, please consider living a rating and reviewing items and subscribing to the positive. This helps spread the word and reaching more people who could benefit from this work. Thanks again, and see you next time.
Speaker 1 00:00:38 In this episode, I’m speaking with Sufi, my Shehan Herman Shehan went through classic Sui training for over 35 years under direct guidance of his master. She Nancy Malani one of the most respected Sufi masters of our times in this interview, Sheik BHA bin talks about the main goals, Princip and practices of a SOI path, his relationship with his master, how SOI meditation priest look like and the importance of consistent spiritual practice. He also talks about some of the main challenges present in the spiritual path and gives advice on how to overcome them now without further ado, she P Herman. Hi, she welcome to the inner craft podcast. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 00:01:30 Thank you so much for
Speaker 1 00:01:32 Thank you. She, I’ve already shared a little bit of your background with the audience and something that really struck me was how in your early years you practice and explore different traditions and different paths before you go to SU. So I’m curious, what caught your attention about SU what made it special? So you decided to make it your, your spiritual path?
Speaker 2 00:01:58 Well, it happened that I was hitchhiking in a very rainy day and it was actually really, um, flooding. Yeah, it was not a little rain, it was really flooding. And finally they came a little bit Beatle. I couldn’t see because of the rain who was inside the door just opened. And there was a strong voice telling me to come in, went in and I was so happy that I was inside the car, you know, and not in the rain anymore, even it was, um, uh, summer. So it wasn’t really freezing cold, but it was very unpleasant at that moment. And, um, I find myself with a man sitting with a big black ton in the car and doesn’t say a word first. Yeah. And, um, so we, we have like a 10 minutes of, of silence or maybe longer. And then he was asking me if I love my mother.
Speaker 2 00:03:05 Yeah. And in that moment, actually, because I was very young, I was 18 years old. Um, there was some difficulties I had with my mother, not really big difficulties, you know, but, um, uh, this typical thing that you may not feel understood really completely, uh, uh, or different views about some things, no, not, not heavy stuff. And, um, so I’m telling him this things. No. And he says, I only hear from you, me, me, me. Yeah. Why don’t you say, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:04:20 Yes. And in that time in Germany, uh, there was no smoking. Um, um, how do you say prohibition in the, in the restaurants like nowadays everywhere, there is a smoking strict, very strict smoking prohibition. So the, the cause of the ring, everyone was inside and all the smokers too. And it was like, like more likely to gender than, um, really a normal kind place now. And, um, so we are sitting there and he looks at me, he had this very strong presence. And, um, I say to him, you know, I can’t stand to, you know, I think I really have to go out and he stay, breathe, breathe deep in because it is the best air you have. And I say, how is it the best air? You know? And he said, well, it is the air you have. So it’s the best one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:05:22 Take a breath, take a breath. And, um, and then he, he was having a, a picture from a photo, a little photograph, like this size from his shape, from his master. And he was, uh, pushing it over to me and said, have a look. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:06:35 He was living in an old house, in the middle of town. Yeah. On below the roof and no elevators. So it took me really a while to come up there. And, um, I knocked the door and he came and, and didn’t open the door, but was speaking with his loud voice behind the door and asking me who is there. And I said, it’s me, uh, the one that you, that you took from the highway, you know, and he said, what do you want? And I said, well, I, I have some questions. Yeah. And he said, ah, you want to steal my time? And I said, no, I don’t want to steal your time. I just have some questions. And he said, okay, if you don’t steal my time, you have to be my guest. That means you need to eat something. So I will make three breads for you.
Speaker 2 00:07:30 And if you eat all of them, then you can put some questions to me, if that is fine for you, you can up. And I said, well, okay, okay. Then I eat threes. Now, what I didn’t know is that the breads he offered me literally were like, this size, honestly, bread, you know, the really biggest bread you can imagine, you know? And so he was putting the butter on the bread, you know, he was putting the, on the bread and to eat one bread already was quite an effort you can say to eat three was almost mission impossible. So I was like chewing the bread, you know, and chewing the food
Speaker 2 00:08:26 And, um, it was a mattress that was, uh, coming from the desert. Yeah. From the Turx. So there is a kind of leather thing over it. Yeah. Very hard. And he used a kind of, of brick almost as a cushion. Yeah. It looked like a brick models. And, um, that was the whole furniture. Yeah. There was a book next to this bed, what could call his bed? And there was, uh, a table with two chairs where we sat and, um, that was the, the room, you know, so very existential let’s say, you know, and, um, he was not a talker. Yeah. So he often was just quiet for many minutes and that challenged me a lot. Yeah. And, um, so we, we had two meetings and he was saying to me in one of the meetings, um, I’m not your master. Yeah. But there is one for you and he lives in Turkey. And so I made my way to Turkey, but I couldn’t find really anybody because he didn’t tell exactly where he would live. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:09:54 Now it’s um, yeah. Silent. Yeah. On your side. Good. So, um, uh, finally it happened that I met, um, another man that, um, was always connected to his, she yeah. And, um, both of them passed away now and this man, he was, um, in contact with my she, with, and, um, he asked me one time if I could host him in fry book. And I said, yes, of course. Welcome. Yeah. And when I met mache, uh, we met basically as a first contact on the street. And, um, that, what I said also in the other interviews was a life changing meeting because I fainted in front of him when I came closer to him. And, um, from that moment on, you can say that he took my life. It was not my choice. You know, it was not that I wanted to enter in Islam or that I wanted to enter in this tradition. You know, it was just so overwhelming, you know, that I had no other thought I had no other choice. It was choiceless. I can say Molina took me like Jesus would have taken his disciples. You know, he would walk along the beach and he would meet this fisherman and he would say to them come right. This is how it is reported to us. And it is told that they dropped the Fisher nets no. And followed him and in a very similar way that happened to me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:12:01 Uh, that’s, that’s very interesting. That’s a great, great story and yeah, very profound way to meet, to meet the teacher. Very unique. Um, at that time, were you practicing any spirituality? Uh, I don’t know. I, I, I think you had some experience in yoga and Buddhism.
Speaker 2 00:12:23 I was always practicing something since I was, uh, very young. Yeah. And, um, at that time I was still in Buddhism. Yeah. And, um, and yeah, and I was, um, doing these meditations, which they practiced there in the now and, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:12:49 Awesome. Thanks. Thanks for sharing that. And yes. Going a little bit deeper in what SU is. So you, you made your shake, uh, what was the sort of practice or training that you started, started going with him after meeting him?
Speaker 2 00:13:10 Well, the first thing he told me is to stop everything which had to do with music. Cause I was actually intending to become a musician. And he said, this is it for you. Now, there is no music. Uh, you don’t play the instrument, you don’t touch it anymore. You don’t listen anything. Uh, you don’t watch any movies. You don’t hear radio, you don’t hear any records. And if there is any kind of sound on the street coming from a shop or whatever, you don’t enter in such a shop or you leave. Yeah. When something starts. And this was, uh, very tough practicing for me because I was playing at that time between four and five hours daily, uh, practicing the instrument, you know? So, um, this was a very strong cut and, um, mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:14:57 Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 00:15:25 I think he could see that I was completely attached yeah. And identified with music and that it was somehow the way that I could, um, express myself emotionally, you know? And without that, I felt very crippled, you know, in the beginning. Yeah. I felt something is missing. I cannot really express myself in the same way, you know, so it was really, um, experiencing myself in a new way, you know, without any Getches, which we would say, for example, today, this would be the computer, which wasn’t that time, you know, or our, uh, phones or mobiles. Um, so, uh, yeah, it was a purification, you know, process of purification
Speaker 1 00:16:18 At, at what point did you engage with music again? Because I know that you are currently doing music.
Speaker 2 00:16:23 Right? Well, after five years he called me and he asked me if I wasn’t a musician, um, pretending that he forgotten
Speaker 1 00:16:55 Well, well, and then when you engage again, how was experience for you basically before it was, it seems that it was an ego based, you know, attachment to music. How was it afterwards?
Speaker 2 00:17:12 Um, it wasn’t easy to start again, actually. Um, first of all, uh, there was, uh, technologically things had changed a bit, you know, and, um, I didn’t really know what to do because I used to have a partner yeah. Who, um, had passed away because he went into drugs and didn’t work out well for him. And so, um, I was on my own and, and I was having 10% left of the capacity on the instrument that I used to have. So I didn’t really know first what to do, but then I came in contact with, uh, another brother and, um, we found a big love for each other in, in music and with his help and, uh, um, his knowledge also about technology that he had much more than me, we could make, um, a record. Yeah. And it was, um, and is still, I think one of the best things I actually did until now. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:18:29 Thanks for sharing that. It’s, it’s very interesting to hear that music, which is usually seen and consider as something very pure, can be an object of attachment and can be detrimental to the spiritual path. But I, I totally understand it. Would you mind Jake talking a little bit more about sufficient sort of, you know, like an overview for all of us who haven’t been exposed to it before? Talk about maybe the main goals, if there are goals or usually in this, uh, contemplative traditions, some type of awakening, maybe with our awards can be defined as the goal or at least that direction of the path. So could you talk a little bit about that in the,
Speaker 2 00:19:16 Well, I would say super is a super science yeah. And whatever it touches. Yeah. Its like bringing to the height of expression of what it can be. So, um, when, um, for example, architecture came in contact with the knowledge of one of the was for example yeah. Or mosque and other really, really prominent, um, places like Alhambra Andana and that is built on spiritual principles that were brought through SU into, um, that culture, you know, the Islamic culture. Well, we have to see that SU is as old as mankind. Yeah. But it always adapted to the latest revelations to the latest prophet. Let’s say that came. Right. So the last one in our understanding was the prophet Muhammad piece upon him. And he was the Supreme expression of love. Yeah. He represents love in our tradition. Right. And the way he lifted, the way he showed it, uh, inspired everything.
Speaker 2 00:20:58 So it inspired music, it inspired architecture, it inspired poetry, it inspired, um, all arts you can say and um, dancing, whatever you look at it. Yeah. He touched it and he brought it to a new flourishing, a new level. Yeah. That, um, it’s uh, really fascinating up to date. Yeah. So medicine, any kind of science, which was touched by it was flowing. Right. And um, it is still doing it. Yeah. Unfortunately many Muslims have adopted the Western science to be the Supreme one. Right. And forgot about their own heritage and that lead them to a kind of stop kind of be stuck, but there is a new generation and they are more, uh, open to it and, and more aware of their, their, um, legacy. Right. And um, yeah, there is some very exciting things happening and um, it is basically a system to develop your soul and from the lower side, from the shadow self to the light body, to the, um, Supreme intelligence, to the spirit, to the spirit self, which is represented, um, by the sun.
Speaker 2 00:22:49 Yeah. And um, in sufficient we, we believe, or we see that the spirit is one yeah. In every one of us, we carry the same spirit. Your spirit is my spirit. My spirit is your spirit, but in the soul we have an individuality. Yeah. Kinda divine individuality. Yeah. And it is somehow the bridge to our physically life here on earth, you know? So, um, in the lower self, in Arabic, the world’s soul and self is the same world. Yeah. It’s got enoughs so navs is also translatable as soul and its translatable itself and translatable as equal. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:23:45 So, um, in the lower self, yeah. We are unaware of our destination of our purpose of our meaning in this world on an in base and also on a collective. Yeah. We, uh, as unaware that we, for example, um, destroy the planet with great passion. Yeah. We can say that. And not really, even not now being aware of climate changes, but not really being aware of the position earth has really, you know, what earth is for us. Yeah. That it’s a living being and that it’s one of the greatest teachers and that we live in its sphere. Right. We are all, um, I, if you wanna say, so, um, we are living in her sphere. Right. And, um, that is a very meaningful thing and has to be understood. Yeah. So we learn through earth. We have to cooperate with earth. We have to, um, be able to live in a peaceful way with her and if not, um, she, she would frequent us.
Speaker 2 00:25:16 And when I was, uh, staying in the forest where I was growing up, um, and I stayed most of my time, my private time out school, there, there was a moment that I could hear the forest crying, you know, it became sad. Yeah. And it was a very strong experience for me to hear it, to, to feel that sadness. And um, then I understood the sadness comes to this acid rain that was starting in the eighties to rain down, you know? And, um, uh, it was making the forest set. Yeah. And now the earth is not the earth is, but we do not hear it. We cannot hear it. And we, this described in the book of love in the holy that their hearts are like stones and they’re deaf and, and this is a bit condition. We are it right. We have intelligence, but we cannot use it up to now really for our own benefit. Yeah. Everything we invented has always terrible side effects on us. Yeah. And on our environment. Right. And this has to change if we do not learn to develop a technology, which is suitable for us and suitable for, um, then earth, then we will face what we have to face. I mean, we are in the middle of it and we are going to face, um, hard situations. Yeah. There’s not a question that, that happens. It is happening already and it will happen stronger and stronger if we don’t wake up.
Speaker 1 00:27:27 Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 00:27:41 That is technical term and is described as the wild careless, ignorant ego state. Yeah. Where everyone is selfish. Yeah. And cannot think on any other thing than himself or herself and is very, um, dominated by sexuals, by food, by drinking, by the need
Speaker 1 00:28:17 Comes after that
Speaker 2 00:28:20 Comes. Um, NA Obama, that is the distinguishing self. That is the self, which feels that there is a higher purpose for it, that there is something that, um, you have to, to understand in your life, you have to fulfill, you have to, you feel a kind of call, you know, to look beyond the material world. And, um, so you all become interested in, in maybe, um, sacred books or spiritual literature, or you have met somebody that touched you and inspired you and you wanna explore yourself. That is a moment where you want to turn inward, um, maybe not more inward than outward, but you want to turn inward, right.
Speaker 1 00:29:11 Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 00:29:13 According the call you receive for yourself, that can be very strong. Life changing is strong. Um, that can be the moment, for example, where you meet your teacher, your master. Yes. And, uh, depends on what category of master you meet, can change your life radically, like in my case, um, or touches you softer and you can still integrate it in your daily life and have the normal life you have. Um, it depends very much, uh, where you are individually, what is needed for you and also what you are ready to do to go for know mm-hmm
Speaker 2 00:30:32 Yeah. Um, that means for a person like this, it is clear that the spirit practicing has the first place in their life. Yeah. It is what we could call a devoted person, a devoted or a disciple. Yeah. Rather than just a student and, um, devotes his life and every aspect of his life or her life in this direction. Yeah. In his spiritual direction. Um, the authority that is given to the master is absolute. Yeah. So what the master says, you will be happily following it, according your capacity. No. Yeah. Um, but your life is completely absorbed on, on this, on this, uh, tradition you follow or on the path you follow.
Speaker 1 00:31:34 Yeah. That’s, that’s interesting. So that’s sort of the progression path, let’s say of a practitioner in thepath. Right,
Speaker 2 00:31:42 Right, right. And then there will be a jump. Yeah. Uh, that is, um, from, if you look for example, symbol of the, but many people know this symbol. Yeah. So what we talked just this moment is on the right side of it. Yeah. That would be 1, 2, 4, 5, 4, 1, 2, 2, uh, four. Yeah. And then between four and five, there is a gap. Yeah. And we call this. Yeah. So in this gap, there is no, um, instruction, really what you do. Yeah. There is something has to happen to you. Yeah. That you can make this jump out of your ecostructure. Um, out of the gravity of the ecostructure, let’s say like this. Yeah. It’s not that you are completely free from ego then, but you go out of the gravity. Right. And this is, um, usually done in our tradition through sec exclusions that can have an unknown length, but have a minimum length of 40 days. Uh, and then according the, she, the master can be prolonged. And so, and, and that time you in a isolation and, um, you will practice, um, 20 hours a day. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:33:26 Uh, very strong practicings, you know, that includes all kinds of, of exercises, also physical exercises. Uh, and through this very, very intense practicing, you reach to deepest, deepest, um, levels of your ego structure. Right. First all seeing what is holding you, fierce sadness is anger, remorse, rebellion. Um, you understand the way you mind functions. Yeah. And so on and so on. And if you are ready to go beyond, you will find yourself in the state of, and this is the state, um, where you need absolutely. For certain, uh, and a real that knows. Yeah. Because this is the part of evolution. The first one, we call it a part of evolution. Yeah. Which means you basically return yeah. To what you know already. Yeah. To what you have been always knowing to you to your real self let’s say, but that self is not study.
Speaker 2 00:35:05 It is not like an entity, which is, um, imperfection. It is growing and growing and growing like the universe expands. Right. Why does it expand? Because there is an infinite consciousness behind it. Yeah. That expands, that also keeps on expanding. So we are the sons and daughters of this consciousness. Right. And therefore also our higher self keeps on expanding and learning, you know? And, um, that happens on the left part and not to go into difficulties. Like for example, the, the fact that you may receive powers. Yeah. Spirit powers that will cross your way and, um, have to be learned, have to be mastered. Uh, otherwise they will destroy you and they will harm you and others. So we can say in the right side, you have a possibility to reach by your own yeah. To a certain point, but to make the jump, to make the jump and to continue from then on, you need somebody that is at home in the spiritual world and knows its laws knows, knows its ways and can guide you.
Speaker 1 00:36:41 Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 00:36:58 Uh, is a simple, you could say, um, the first one I would say purity.
Speaker 3 00:37:07 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:37:09 Um, and purity goes together and compassion, love and, um, knowledge.
Speaker 3 00:37:28 Yeah. Mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:37:33 Could you expand a little bit more on, on purity? I think it could be a controversial term. Uh, so what would love to
Speaker 2 00:37:41 When you start to observe yourself? Yeah. Which is in every tradition, the, the one tool you have to use, there is not a tradition where you can bypass self observation. Right. So mm-hmm,
Speaker 2 00:39:01 Yeah. With a pure pattern. In that sense, for example, purity means more or less that you sacrifice harmful behaviors. Yeah. Um, Hm. Um, toxic behaviors. Yeah. Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 00:40:13 Yeah. So, um, mm-hmm,
Speaker 2 00:41:47 Right. Um, you try to be in a high. Yeah. So you don’t harm anyone by speech. Yeah. Um, then in the purification, after purification comes the thankfulness yeah. On the mind level. And so you become thankful you practice thankfulness, which is the golden key to turn your life around. Yeah. Because if you’re not thankful with the, what has been given to you in your troubled conditions, you do not have to expect that more will be given to you because that will only expand your travel. Okay. And that’s not in the purpose of this existence of this universe. We do not wanna foster, uh, or cultivate more travel. Right. So, uh, when you learn to handle your life in the amount you have been given in, in the amount, which is now with real thankfulness, with real satisfaction, then expect that life starts to flow to you in a different amount, on all kinds of levels, emotionally materially, uh, also health level.
Speaker 2 00:43:19 Yeah. So mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:44:39 You’ve mentioned, uh, several times now the, uh, different practices like prayers for, um, mantras or even the practice of thank thankfulness throughout the day. Could you ex uh, talk a little bit more about the importance of practicing in SU and maybe also talk a little bit more about these practices.
Speaker 2 00:45:03 Uh, that’s another name for Sufi, uh, which we usually don’t other, but we call other, yeah. Delish is a worth, it means a person who sits on the, so he has one in heaven and one on, he sits in the middle also has this delish also has this, this aspect of poverty or a person who’s detached from worldly matters, right? Doesn’t mean that you have to be poor, but you are detached. You are delish. You are, the world doesn’t mean much to you. You are not looking for attachment. So, um, Aish practice is really around the clock. There is not, um, a moment where he does not practice. There is this prayer. There is this zer, but the Zika on the higher levels of practicing goes around the clock. It’s permanent. Yeah. So you are all the time in recitation of something. Um, then there is, and the connection with breath to the mantra, then there is the, um, practicing on the energetic body on sounds.
Speaker 2 00:46:34 Um, so all these things, they come more and more and more in your life. Yeah. And, um, at the same time, we encourage people to have a professional life and to have family life as well. So this is of course not easy. So you need really to develop a very good time management. That is another thing. Yeah. And for this reason we divide our day in five parts. Yeah. Because if you want to manage something, you have to divide it. You know, that is, uh, what every basic coaching in business tells you, if something is too big to embrace it divided right. In some parts, eatable parts, you know? So, um, this is what we do in synchronicity with the sun, with the solar system, you can say yeah. With the moon, but with the moon. And the first of all, because these are the twos that are visible fast, the strongest, and, um, that are the most important one, our emotional life for our life on earth for our, uh, way we, we handle our life. Yeah. When we have these two planets close and when we know what they are, what they do with us, um, you have already half of the path. No. OK. Yes.
Speaker 1 00:48:15 Something that struck my attention of what you said was that in the tradition, you encourage people, practitioners to enter the family life. It’s, it’s interesting how different this is from other ways, uh, in which maybe they encourage being, uh, sec, uh, being maybe in sec, ion and avoiding, engaging with, uh, let’s say with a modern world in a way to deepen the practice. So was there reasoning to don’t do that and engage in family life?
Speaker 2 00:48:51 Well, the reason is you have to become useful. You know, if every one of us includes, yeah. There is no community, there is not anything we contribute, you know, to the society in a visible sense, at least. So, um, mm-hmm,
Speaker 2 00:50:12 Yeah. So, uh, what she says to you will hit you. Right. And if she says to you, um, my dear under this, you are a little bit too much busy with your business and you are neglecting the family. Yeah. Or you are neglecting me, um, then you better listen. Yeah. Because she’s your winner, you know, and Venus is, um, responsible for your beauty and for your success in your life. Yeah. So happy wife, happy home. Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 00:51:18 Yeah. You have no woman that bothers you. You have nobody that, uh, you are with yourself and this is not difficult on a certain point to be with yourself, but it is a challenge mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:52:00 Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks, Jake. Uh, I think something you, uh, you said about practicing not only for oneself, but to be useful for others reminded me also, uh, the way that you’re teaching nowadays, uh, it seems that you are not only drawing from Sufi teachings, but also from other methods, I frequently hear you talking about, uh, the fourth way and good, or just teachings of psychology and other modern disciplines. So what’s your, your reasoning to draw from all of these traditions, uh, instead of just using SU as the main as the only one, sorry,
Speaker 2 00:52:46 If you say just so sufficient is by default, um, has its intention to, to look everywhere and to see what’s beneficial and whenever something is beneficial, you know, we grab it and we make it ours. Okay. So why we not do that? You know, I mean, if someone has, um, beautiful inspiration or beautiful music or beautiful, uh, furniture or whatever, I’m not gonna say to that person, oh, you have the wrong religion or you have the, or you no religion, or you have no path, whatever. Uh, that’s useless for us. No. What is benefiting us and others, according to principles, we look into it. Yeah. Mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:54:24 Right. Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 00:54:47 Um, yeah. This are describing the three states. Usually people live their life where we can say, uh, the majority, majority lives in the mode. That is the way of life that you make circumstances and others responsible for the way you feel and think, no, uh, starting with your parents, starting with, uh, all kinds of, of, of, um, accusations. Yeah. That we live permanently in a world of accusations, you know, blaming the other. Yeah. Looking to the other and saying the other is the reason of my unhappiness. Yeah. My wrong birth in the wrong family is the reason of all my trouble. Yeah. Um, and so on. And so on the wrong president makes me unhappy. Yeah. The, the wrong country, the wrong language, the, whatever, the wrong size of my body. Yeah. Uh, wrong color of my eye is wrong. Shape of my nose and on and so on.
Speaker 2 00:55:56 Yeah. There is no end to that. Mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:56:57
Speaker 2 00:57:35 Um, the main hindrance is usually, um, I think people face is in their wound and that they live their lives through their wounds, that they dunno what they are and how to handle them. So, um, uh, trauma, as you can say yeah. That they received, not because their parents were especially bad, but, um, to be traumatized, especially when we are very smart children is almost unavoidable. Yeah. And it happens to a certain degree to everybody. So, um, we usually start there yeah. To, to look, to encourage the student to there and observer that is very important and, um, learn to learn, to know how mind functions, how, uh, the brain functions also very important. Yeah. And, um, not to speak about things that, you know yeah. That is another thing. Very important. So, uh, every student loves to speak about chakras and about all these kinds of things, but, uh, you know, um, that is at least in my perception in the, this knowledge is enhanced of not many people.
Speaker 2 00:59:22 Yeah. Uh, and most people just talk what everyone talks. Yeah. Um, the famous third eye, for example. Yeah. That needs to be opened. Yeah. Uh, by any kind of tricks and, and clicks and this and that. But, um, that I is never closed. It is the same thing. Like your heart, you know, when you say I have a closed heart or my heart is closed, your heart is never closed. Yeah. Nothing us is ever closed. Nothing. Absolutely. Nothing is closed. Yeah. It cannot be closed. We want to close people. Yeah. We want to tell them, ah, your heart is not open your eyes, not open your heart, your, um, cha and knows what is blocked and so on and so on. Yeah. And already by saying this, yeah. You implant it in people. Yeah. You implant it because you use their difficulties to develop a theory, which gives them power, you know?
Speaker 2 01:00:26 Yeah. So they can come up and say, I show, you know, how you open this and open that and open this and open that. And then they find a little bit here, more energy or a little bit more warmth here or more that, well, that is not, um, really the truth. Yeah. You see things open by themselves. Yeah. They open exactly.
Speaker 1 01:02:01 Yeah. That’s great advice. We’re almost coming to an end shake, but before we leave, uh, work and people learn more from you and, you know, get access to your teachings, uh, E either online or in person, what sort of formats of teachings are you doing nowadays?
Speaker 2 01:02:23 Well, um, I like very much teaching, uh, life. Yeah. So from, to people, person to not one to one that I don’t have the time for that, but, um, in groups. Yeah. So there is always groups, regular groups that you can find in on our website SoFi way EU. And we’ll also come with another website soon, which is, um, uh, do com uh, where we opened the higher aspect, let’s say. Yeah. Mm-hmm
Speaker 1 01:04:24 Sounds good. Uh, I will be sharing all the links you mentioned on the podcast, uh, website, uh, I guess one last question. Note of curiosity just came up, uh, right now to remain. Um, are you doing periods of seclusion? You mentioned before that, uh, those were sort of part of that path as well. Uh, periods of, I know, 40 days of intense practice, 20 hours per day, something like that. Are you still doing those type, those type of things?
Speaker 2 01:04:54 Yes, we are doing it not 40 days because 40 days, you know, um, that is something that can only do a few people. OK. And I cannot, we cannot open that to everyone because, uh, we don’t want to create a mental house. Right. Yeah. So, um, mm-hmm
Speaker 1 01:05:43 Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 01:05:51 Thank you very much. And we wish you all the best in success for inner craft and, uh, that people, uh, enjoy the working. It’s a very be work all the best for you, your family, and
Speaker 0 01:06:07 The
Speaker 2 01:06:07 Best. Thank you.
Speaker 1 01:06:10 Although it’s really thank you for listening to this episode, to find the links mentioned today, please visit our website@craft.com. Here. You will also find resources for in depth and personalized meditation training, such as video courses and live events conducted by highly qualified teachers. If you enjoy this episode, please consider living a rating and reviewing items and subscribing to the positive. This helps spread the word and reaching more people who could benefit from this work. Thanks again, and see you next time.
